<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: On the recent ruling against CleanFlicks</title>
	<atom:link href="http://richardkmiller.com/208/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://richardkmiller.com/208/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 02:38:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hindenburg</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/208/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks/comment-page-1#comment-5467</link>
		<dc:creator>Hindenburg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/blog/archives/2006/08/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks#comment-5467</guid>
		<description>The one theoretic solution (that will probably never be implemented) that might help both sides would be to offer the &quot;made for TV&quot; copies for sale to the public as DVDs. The films are already edited. Most people, including most CleanFlicks customers, are familiar with (and satisfied with) these TV edits. The filmmakers are also familiar with these edits and (I assume) approve of the TV networks showing them. If they let people watch the edits on TV, will they not also approve of selling people these same copies?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-1fbc5c9065a9e5aed101f729dc7d1cf2a2419046'>The one theoretic solution (that will probably never be implemented) that might help both sides would be to offer the &#8220;made for TV&#8221; copies for sale to the public as DVDs. The films are already edited. Most people, including most CleanFlicks customers, are familiar with (and satisfied with) these TV edits. The filmmakers are also familiar with these edits and (I assume) approve of the TV networks showing them. If they let people watch the edits on TV, will they not also approve of selling people these same copies?</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard K. Miller</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/208/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks/comment-page-1#comment-5277</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard K. Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Aug 2006 19:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/blog/archives/2006/08/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks#comment-5277</guid>
		<description>Carolynn, good comments.  I actually don&#039;t think the LDS market is large enough for Hollywood to care about, but if they&#039;re already produced sanitized copies for TV, why not include them on the DVD?  I think boycotting Hollywood to send them a message could be a worthy cause, but in the end I&#039;m pragmatic about this--I&#039;d rather watch an edited copy and fight a different battle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-781638ceff08110e27cb6063c5cd105a241b5e67'>Carolynn, good comments.  I actually don&#8217;t think the LDS market is large enough for Hollywood to care about, but if they&#8217;re already produced sanitized copies for TV, why not include them on the DVD?  I think boycotting Hollywood to send them a message could be a worthy cause, but in the end I&#8217;m pragmatic about this&#8211;I&#8217;d rather watch an edited copy and fight a different battle.</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Carolynn</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/208/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks/comment-page-1#comment-5269</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Aug 2006 16:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/blog/archives/2006/08/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks#comment-5269</guid>
		<description>Great arguments for both sides of the issue. I haven&#039;t a strong opinion either way yet, but there are a few things that make me wonder:

1. Why is it, really, that filmmakers would care enough about this issue? The small percentage of the LDS society/whoever uses CleanFlicks is hardly noticeable in the market share.

2. What does editing films really accomplish for LDS people who feel indignant enough about the smut to purchase edited films/ yet not indignant enough to pursue creating a really excellent genre of either culture-specific or content-specific films suitable for their tastes?

3. Who takes on the job of watching &amp; editing these so-called low brow scenes? This has always been one of the most amusing aspects of the whole situation... that in the defense of the general populace&#039;s morals, some few CleanFlicks employee-martyrs are tarnishing their own...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-665454c8a71e2c30ceafd42a4c1e2d2eee530f5b'>Great arguments for both sides of the issue. I haven&#8217;t a strong opinion either way yet, but there are a few things that make me wonder:</p>
<p>1. Why is it, really, that filmmakers would care enough about this issue? The small percentage of the LDS society/whoever uses CleanFlicks is hardly noticeable in the market share.</p>
<p>2. What does editing films really accomplish for LDS people who feel indignant enough about the smut to purchase edited films/ yet not indignant enough to pursue creating a really excellent genre of either culture-specific or content-specific films suitable for their tastes?</p>
<p>3. Who takes on the job of watching &amp; editing these so-called low brow scenes? This has always been one of the most amusing aspects of the whole situation&#8230; that in the defense of the general populace&#8217;s morals, some few CleanFlicks employee-martyrs are tarnishing their own&#8230;</p></div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kevin Miller</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/208/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks/comment-page-1#comment-5128</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Aug 2006 04:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/blog/archives/2006/08/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks#comment-5128</guid>
		<description>Richard,
Great job with your thoughts on this one.
Dad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-8e538d334d717ef2882e40f899d8c9690da205c7'>Richard,<br />
Great job with your thoughts on this one.<br />
Dad</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: the CleanFlicks conundrum &#124; Russell Page</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/208/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks/comment-page-1#comment-5047</link>
		<dc:creator>the CleanFlicks conundrum &#124; Russell Page</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 01:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/blog/archives/2006/08/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks#comment-5047</guid>
		<description>[...] Here are a few thoughts: 1) Richard Miller - &#8220;On the recent ruling against Cleanflicks&#8221; 2) Jordan Gunderson - &#8220;Hollywood Hates you&#8221; 3) Chris Knudsen - &#8220;Finally weighing in on Cleanflicks&#8221; 4) Josh Steimle - &#8220;CleanFlicks, Play It Clean Video and CleanFilms - Court Rules Against Three Utah Companies&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-7920233b27a2e946bdd71e6990fc6ed4c118dca0'>[...] Here are a few thoughts: 1) Richard Miller &#8211; &#8220;On the recent ruling against Cleanflicks&#8221; 2) Jordan Gunderson &#8211; &#8220;Hollywood Hates you&#8221; 3) Chris Knudsen &#8211; &#8220;Finally weighing in on Cleanflicks&#8221; 4) Josh Steimle &#8211; &#8220;CleanFlicks, Play It Clean Video and CleanFilms &#8211; Court Rules Against Three Utah Companies&#8221; [...]</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Connor Boyack</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/208/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks/comment-page-1#comment-5028</link>
		<dc:creator>Connor Boyack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 21:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/blog/archives/2006/08/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks#comment-5028</guid>
		<description>All that&#039;s being paid for is CleanFlick&#039;s service.  I also have edited DVDs before, and would feel perfectly comfortable charging my friend 10 bucks to edit his DVD.  The money is for my time and service, not for the copyrighted material I am modifying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-0ce0b2d0299d4571983d9b275571eab38b76b203'>All that&#8217;s being paid for is CleanFlick&#8217;s service.  I also have edited DVDs before, and would feel perfectly comfortable charging my friend 10 bucks to edit his DVD.  The money is for my time and service, not for the copyrighted material I am modifying.</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/208/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks/comment-page-1#comment-4948</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 19:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/blog/archives/2006/08/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks#comment-4948</guid>
		<description>Guys:

The real issue here is not the legality of the modification.  What is illegal is the modification then turning around and reselling the modified copywrited material. That&#039;s the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-de3ef7f631c63d1f60fdcb712f1eebdbeb30ee1c'>Guys:</p>
<p>The real issue here is not the legality of the modification.  What is illegal is the modification then turning around and reselling the modified copywrited material. That&#8217;s the issue.</p></div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard K. Miller</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/208/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks/comment-page-1#comment-4906</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard K. Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Aug 2006 23:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/blog/archives/2006/08/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks#comment-4906</guid>
		<description>Lonnie: I suppose we&#039;ll just have to agree to disagree.

If CleanFlicks were selling edited movies without buying original copies, I would agree that they were selling unauthorized derivatives works.  However, when you buy a sanitized movie from CleanFlicks, they also send you the original DVD, proving that the edit was a work-for-hire and not the redistribution of an unauthorized copy.

The similarity to DRM, enforced by the DMCA, is the infringement on what consumers can do with the products they buy.  DRM is used to control ownership post-purchase; likewise, Hollywood is seeking to control ownership post-purchase.  See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.metroland.net/back_issues/vol28_no20/opinion.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Metroland&lt;/a&gt; for more on this.

I agree with your statement &quot;If CleanFlicks were to provide a service to modify user’s copies of movies for them instead of selling the modified copies directly, then it would not be directly illegal under copyright law.&quot;  But to me it&#039;s unfortunate that the small distinction  between who bought the original first matters, since the original is purchase either way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-781638ceff08110e27cb6063c5cd105a241b5e67'>Lonnie: I suppose we&#8217;ll just have to agree to disagree.</p>
<p>If CleanFlicks were selling edited movies without buying original copies, I would agree that they were selling unauthorized derivatives works.  However, when you buy a sanitized movie from CleanFlicks, they also send you the original DVD, proving that the edit was a work-for-hire and not the redistribution of an unauthorized copy.</p>
<p>The similarity to DRM, enforced by the DMCA, is the infringement on what consumers can do with the products they buy.  DRM is used to control ownership post-purchase; likewise, Hollywood is seeking to control ownership post-purchase.  See <a href="http://www.metroland.net/back_issues/vol28_no20/opinion.html" rel="nofollow">Metroland</a> for more on this.</p>
<p>I agree with your statement &#8220;If CleanFlicks were to provide a service to modify user’s copies of movies for them instead of selling the modified copies directly, then it would not be directly illegal under copyright law.&#8221;  But to me it&#8217;s unfortunate that the small distinction  between who bought the original first matters, since the original is purchase either way.</p></div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lonnie Olson</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/208/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks/comment-page-1#comment-4888</link>
		<dc:creator>Lonnie Olson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Aug 2006 20:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/blog/archives/2006/08/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks#comment-4888</guid>
		<description>I agree that end-users have the right to modify their purchased copies and they wish.  I do *not* agree with your point that CleanFlicks is the same.

CleanFlicks is creating a new movie based on the work of a previous filmmaker.  They are then selling this new work for a profit.  Even worse, they leave the title the same as the original.  These acts are exactly what copyright was established for.  

No person is allowed to redistribute works derived from previously copyrighted material w/o the copyright holder&#039;s permission.

This is not new, and is in no way related to DRM, or the DMCA.  You are spreading more FUD.  This principle is the original intent of the very first Copyright Act.

CleanFlicks is legally similar to this scenario.  A small company buys Dan Brown&#039;s book The Davinci Code, and replaces every reference of the Catholic Church with a reference to the Lutheran Church, and re-sells the new book, with the same Title and credits intact.  

Again this company is creating a new work derived from a previously copyrighted work w/o permission of the author, and redistributing it.  The important catch here is *redistribution*.  If you buy the book and cross out all the references to Catholicism yourself, that is not illegal.  Re-selling the book is.

If CleanFlicks were to provide a service to modify user&#039;s copies of movies for them instead of selling the modified copies directly, then it would not be directly illegal under copyright law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-949cc664fa1357f87f3ae4d660cea162ea21ec47'>I agree that end-users have the right to modify their purchased copies and they wish.  I do *not* agree with your point that CleanFlicks is the same.</p>
<p>CleanFlicks is creating a new movie based on the work of a previous filmmaker.  They are then selling this new work for a profit.  Even worse, they leave the title the same as the original.  These acts are exactly what copyright was established for.  </p>
<p>No person is allowed to redistribute works derived from previously copyrighted material w/o the copyright holder&#8217;s permission.</p>
<p>This is not new, and is in no way related to DRM, or the DMCA.  You are spreading more FUD.  This principle is the original intent of the very first Copyright Act.</p>
<p>CleanFlicks is legally similar to this scenario.  A small company buys Dan Brown&#8217;s book The Davinci Code, and replaces every reference of the Catholic Church with a reference to the Lutheran Church, and re-sells the new book, with the same Title and credits intact.  </p>
<p>Again this company is creating a new work derived from a previously copyrighted work w/o permission of the author, and redistributing it.  The important catch here is *redistribution*.  If you buy the book and cross out all the references to Catholicism yourself, that is not illegal.  Re-selling the book is.</p>
<p>If CleanFlicks were to provide a service to modify user&#8217;s copies of movies for them instead of selling the modified copies directly, then it would not be directly illegal under copyright law.</p></div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Connor Boyack</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/208/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks/comment-page-1#comment-4800</link>
		<dc:creator>Connor Boyack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Aug 2006 23:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/blog/archives/2006/08/on-the-recent-ruling-against-cleanflicks#comment-4800</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;To say that this is a violation of copyright is to side with all the large media companies that use DRM and the DMCA to legislate and enforce what consumers can do with their products after they’ve bought them.&lt;/em&gt;

I wholheartedly agree.  If I buy a book, should I be sued if I make notes in it, underline it, or tear out a page?

If I buy a computer, should I be sued if I take it apart and modify it as a desire?

If I buy a painting, should I be sued if I cut it in half and put it in two frames?

When I buy something, it is mine.  I&#039;m not buying it to rent it, borrow it, or simply &quot;use&quot; it.  It is mine.  The fact that the MPAA/RIAA has craftily drafted legislation saying something otherwise is horrendous.  Limiting the license agreement in such a way that it becomes annoyingly compulsory is downright oppressive and bad business.  

Additionally, they are abusing this country&#039;s legal system in an effort to make money and use scare tactics to get their way, stomping their feet angrily like a child when they don&#039;t get what they want.  Grow up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-0ce0b2d0299d4571983d9b275571eab38b76b203'><em>To say that this is a violation of copyright is to side with all the large media companies that use DRM and the DMCA to legislate and enforce what consumers can do with their products after they’ve bought them.</em></p>
<p>I wholheartedly agree.  If I buy a book, should I be sued if I make notes in it, underline it, or tear out a page?</p>
<p>If I buy a computer, should I be sued if I take it apart and modify it as a desire?</p>
<p>If I buy a painting, should I be sued if I cut it in half and put it in two frames?</p>
<p>When I buy something, it is mine.  I&#8217;m not buying it to rent it, borrow it, or simply &#8220;use&#8221; it.  It is mine.  The fact that the MPAA/RIAA has craftily drafted legislation saying something otherwise is horrendous.  Limiting the license agreement in such a way that it becomes annoyingly compulsory is downright oppressive and bad business.  </p>
<p>Additionally, they are abusing this country&#8217;s legal system in an effort to make money and use scare tactics to get their way, stomping their feet angrily like a child when they don&#8217;t get what they want.  Grow up.</p></div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

