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	<title>Comments on: Joseph Smith and Abraham Lincoln</title>
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	<link>http://richardkmiller.com/mormonism/joseph-smith-and-abraham-lincoln/</link>
	<description>Thoughts from a Mormon on Mormonism and the Mormon church</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2012 20:40:20 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jeff Jensen</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/mormonism/joseph-smith-and-abraham-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-51667</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2012 20:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/mormonism/?p=13#comment-51667</guid>
		<description>@ A.C. KORITZ, here is the &quot;plow around them&quot; quote you inquired about.  It comes from a letter that was written 7 June 1863 by Thomas Stenhouse, a LDS representative that was sent to Washington to meet with Lincoln.  In the letter, Stenhouse reported the following remarks by Lincoln:

&quot;Stenhouse, when I was a boy on the farm in Illinois there was a great deal of timber on the farm which we had to clear away.  Occasionally we would come to a log which had fallen down.  It was too hard to split, too wet to burn, and too heavy to move, so we plowed around it.  You go back and tell Brigham Young that if he will let me alone I will let him alone.&quot; 
(letter can be found in LDS Church Archives, Brigham Young Correspondence)

Brigham Young was elated.  While it wasn&#039;t support, it was actually what Young wanted--to simply be left alone to worship as he pleased.  Contrary to what some have presented, Lincoln did not attack Mormonism.  When the Saints complained to him about an unfiar, anti-Mormon territorial governor, Lincoln had him removed and replaced him with someone who shared his philosophy of simply &quot;letting them alone.&quot;  Lincoln also supported and voted for the Nauvoo Charter.  Furthermore, Lincoln did not send out Union troops to supress the Utah rebellion.  The Utah War occurred before Lincoln was president, and the troops were sent by President Buchanan.  They were recalled at the outbreak of the Civil War and Camp Floyd was abandoned.  President Buchanan, Lincoln&#039;s immediate predecessor, actually DID fight actively against the Mormons.  Lincoln adopted the passive stance, and did not even enforce the anti polygamy that he signed after Congress wrote and passed the bill (Lincoln was not one to use the veto pen).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ A.C. KORITZ, here is the &#8220;plow around them&#8221; quote you inquired about.  It comes from a letter that was written 7 June 1863 by Thomas Stenhouse, a LDS representative that was sent to Washington to meet with Lincoln.  In the letter, Stenhouse reported the following remarks by Lincoln:</p>
<p>&#8220;Stenhouse, when I was a boy on the farm in Illinois there was a great deal of timber on the farm which we had to clear away.  Occasionally we would come to a log which had fallen down.  It was too hard to split, too wet to burn, and too heavy to move, so we plowed around it.  You go back and tell Brigham Young that if he will let me alone I will let him alone.&#8221;<br />
(letter can be found in LDS Church Archives, Brigham Young Correspondence)</p>
<p>Brigham Young was elated.  While it wasn&#8217;t support, it was actually what Young wanted&#8211;to simply be left alone to worship as he pleased.  Contrary to what some have presented, Lincoln did not attack Mormonism.  When the Saints complained to him about an unfiar, anti-Mormon territorial governor, Lincoln had him removed and replaced him with someone who shared his philosophy of simply &#8220;letting them alone.&#8221;  Lincoln also supported and voted for the Nauvoo Charter.  Furthermore, Lincoln did not send out Union troops to supress the Utah rebellion.  The Utah War occurred before Lincoln was president, and the troops were sent by President Buchanan.  They were recalled at the outbreak of the Civil War and Camp Floyd was abandoned.  President Buchanan, Lincoln&#8217;s immediate predecessor, actually DID fight actively against the Mormons.  Lincoln adopted the passive stance, and did not even enforce the anti polygamy that he signed after Congress wrote and passed the bill (Lincoln was not one to use the veto pen).</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Jensen</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/mormonism/joseph-smith-and-abraham-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-51666</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2012 20:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/mormonism/?p=13#comment-51666</guid>
		<description>Also, for the sake of a balanced perspective, I might offer a few more books to balance the ones previously recommended, as they all argue the same theories, which are far from mainstream.  I have read several, but not all of them.  Again, I&#039;m not saying they&#039;re wrong and the following are right, but in order to know what&#039;s right you have to know more than one perspective.

&quot;Shattering the Truth: The Slandering of Abraham Lincoln&quot; - by Dennis W. Brandt
&quot;The Impending Crisis&quot; - David M. Potter
&quot;Lincoln and the Decision for War: The Northern Response to Secession&quot; - Russell A. McClintock
&quot;Lincoln, President Elect: Abraham Lincoln and the Great Secession Winter, 1860-1861&quot; - Harold Holzer
&quot;Vindicating Lincoln&quot; - Thomas Krannawitter

It&#039;s a lot of reading, I know, but you can get through them pretty quick.  Just remember to fairly study both sides before deciding which one to join.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, for the sake of a balanced perspective, I might offer a few more books to balance the ones previously recommended, as they all argue the same theories, which are far from mainstream.  I have read several, but not all of them.  Again, I&#8217;m not saying they&#8217;re wrong and the following are right, but in order to know what&#8217;s right you have to know more than one perspective.</p>
<p>&#8220;Shattering the Truth: The Slandering of Abraham Lincoln&#8221; &#8211; by Dennis W. Brandt<br />
&#8220;The Impending Crisis&#8221; &#8211; David M. Potter<br />
&#8220;Lincoln and the Decision for War: The Northern Response to Secession&#8221; &#8211; Russell A. McClintock<br />
&#8220;Lincoln, President Elect: Abraham Lincoln and the Great Secession Winter, 1860-1861&#8243; &#8211; Harold Holzer<br />
&#8220;Vindicating Lincoln&#8221; &#8211; Thomas Krannawitter</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a lot of reading, I know, but you can get through them pretty quick.  Just remember to fairly study both sides before deciding which one to join.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Jensen</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/mormonism/joseph-smith-and-abraham-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-51665</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2012 19:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/mormonism/?p=13#comment-51665</guid>
		<description>And as you may have noticed, my &#039;P&#039; key had issues while I was typing that last post as it is absent in a few words where it should be present.  I missed a few corrections.  Oops!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And as you may have noticed, my &#8216;P&#8217; key had issues while I was typing that last post as it is absent in a few words where it should be present.  I missed a few corrections.  Oops!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Jensen</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/mormonism/joseph-smith-and-abraham-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-51664</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2012 19:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/mormonism/?p=13#comment-51664</guid>
		<description>Wow, for all the opinions going around about Lincoln I&#039;m surprised that no one has turned to what Chuch leaders have said about him.  He is referenced more than any other political figure in General Conference talks, even more than George Washington.  Since 1851, Lincoln has been referred to or referenced 490 times in General Conference, with 90% of those references coming after 1920, well after people who were &quot;opinionated&quot; about him would have perished.  I find it convenient that the one quote shared, by Brigham Young, was selected to support an opinion which Brigham himself later changed.  An entire conference address was devoted to Abraham Lincoln, given by an apostle, Elder Mark E. Peterson, in which he declared immediately that he wished to speak about Abraham Lincoln who was a man of God.  Even President Benson enlisted Lincoln as a supporter of the Constitution, not a destroyer of it.  Many prophets have said over several decades and reiterated on several occasions that Lincoln WAS a man of God, and did the work of God in preserving the Union AND the Constitution.  President Heber J. Grant said the following of Abraham Lincoln,
&quot;Every Latter-day Saint believes that Abraham Lincoln was raised up and inspired of God, and that he reached the Presidency of the United States under the favor of our Heavenly Father. . . ...We honor the man that God honors. We honor Abraham Lincoln because we believe absolutely that God honored him and raised him up to be the instrument in His hands of saving the Constitution and the Union&quot; (”Lincoln and Law” 73, 127).
That was written in the &quot;Improvement Era&quot; in February 1940.  As the &quot;Ensign&quot; of its day, the official Church publication, it is not a piece of opinion where the prohet would speculate or speak what he thought that may be contrary to the truth.  The editorial itself is presented much as a First Presidency Message of today would be presented, as an official message from the First Presidency.

There is certainly room to have a debate about Lincoln on strictly political issues, but if you&#039;re going to bring religion into it, than BRING religion into it!  Don&#039;t try to measure Abraham Lincoln against Mormonism when you ignore Mormonism.  And by doing this, it will quickly become obvious that any criticism you may find of him was spoken by his contemporaries before a full understanding of his life was available.  Furthermore, all of those criticisms would be merely a drop in a large bucket when comared to the innumerable things other more recent prophets have said repeatedly about the man and his mission.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, for all the opinions going around about Lincoln I&#8217;m surprised that no one has turned to what Chuch leaders have said about him.  He is referenced more than any other political figure in General Conference talks, even more than George Washington.  Since 1851, Lincoln has been referred to or referenced 490 times in General Conference, with 90% of those references coming after 1920, well after people who were &#8220;opinionated&#8221; about him would have perished.  I find it convenient that the one quote shared, by Brigham Young, was selected to support an opinion which Brigham himself later changed.  An entire conference address was devoted to Abraham Lincoln, given by an apostle, Elder Mark E. Peterson, in which he declared immediately that he wished to speak about Abraham Lincoln who was a man of God.  Even President Benson enlisted Lincoln as a supporter of the Constitution, not a destroyer of it.  Many prophets have said over several decades and reiterated on several occasions that Lincoln WAS a man of God, and did the work of God in preserving the Union AND the Constitution.  President Heber J. Grant said the following of Abraham Lincoln,<br />
&#8220;Every Latter-day Saint believes that Abraham Lincoln was raised up and inspired of God, and that he reached the Presidency of the United States under the favor of our Heavenly Father. . . &#8230;We honor the man that God honors. We honor Abraham Lincoln because we believe absolutely that God honored him and raised him up to be the instrument in His hands of saving the Constitution and the Union&#8221; (”Lincoln and Law” 73, 127).<br />
That was written in the &#8220;Improvement Era&#8221; in February 1940.  As the &#8220;Ensign&#8221; of its day, the official Church publication, it is not a piece of opinion where the prohet would speculate or speak what he thought that may be contrary to the truth.  The editorial itself is presented much as a First Presidency Message of today would be presented, as an official message from the First Presidency.</p>
<p>There is certainly room to have a debate about Lincoln on strictly political issues, but if you&#8217;re going to bring religion into it, than BRING religion into it!  Don&#8217;t try to measure Abraham Lincoln against Mormonism when you ignore Mormonism.  And by doing this, it will quickly become obvious that any criticism you may find of him was spoken by his contemporaries before a full understanding of his life was available.  Furthermore, all of those criticisms would be merely a drop in a large bucket when comared to the innumerable things other more recent prophets have said repeatedly about the man and his mission.</p>
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		<title>By: Abel</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/mormonism/joseph-smith-and-abraham-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-51553</link>
		<dc:creator>Abel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 02:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/mormonism/?p=13#comment-51553</guid>
		<description>I like the comparisons. Some comments should be supported with some research, rather than just comments. Let&#039;s not be ignorants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the comparisons. Some comments should be supported with some research, rather than just comments. Let&#8217;s not be ignorants.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/mormonism/joseph-smith-and-abraham-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-51483</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2011 23:30:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/mormonism/?p=13#comment-51483</guid>
		<description>An LDS Perspective on &quot;Honest Abe&quot;

About the Author:  Michael T. Griffith holds a Master’s degree in Theology from The Catholic Distance University, a Graduate Certificate in Ancient and Classical History from American Military University, a Bachelor’s degree in Liberal Arts from Excelsior College, and two Associate in Applied Science degrees from the Community College of the Air Force.  He also holds an Advanced Certificate of Civil War Studies and a Certificate of Civil War Studies from Carroll College.  He is a graduate in Arabic and Hebrew of the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, California, and of the U.S. Air Force Technical Training School in San Angelo, Texas.  In addition, he has completed an Advanced Hebrew program at Haifa University in Israel.  He is the author of five books on Mormonism and ancient texts, including How Firm A Foundation, A Ready Reply, and One Lord, One Faith.

http://www.mtgriffith.com/web_documents/lincolnandlds.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An LDS Perspective on &#8220;Honest Abe&#8221;</p>
<p>About the Author:  Michael T. Griffith holds a Master’s degree in Theology from The Catholic Distance University, a Graduate Certificate in Ancient and Classical History from American Military University, a Bachelor’s degree in Liberal Arts from Excelsior College, and two Associate in Applied Science degrees from the Community College of the Air Force.  He also holds an Advanced Certificate of Civil War Studies and a Certificate of Civil War Studies from Carroll College.  He is a graduate in Arabic and Hebrew of the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, California, and of the U.S. Air Force Technical Training School in San Angelo, Texas.  In addition, he has completed an Advanced Hebrew program at Haifa University in Israel.  He is the author of five books on Mormonism and ancient texts, including How Firm A Foundation, A Ready Reply, and One Lord, One Faith.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mtgriffith.com/web_documents/lincolnandlds.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.mtgriffith.com/web_documents/lincolnandlds.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/mormonism/joseph-smith-and-abraham-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-51482</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2011 22:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/mormonism/?p=13#comment-51482</guid>
		<description>Forced Into Glory - Lerone Bennett
The Real Lincoln - Charles L.C. Minor (Apologia Books)
Lincoln Unmasked - Thomas DiLorenzo
Lincoln the Man - Edgar Lee Masters
Lincoln Uber Alles - John Avery Emison
Lincoln Takes Command - John Tilley
Disowning Slavery - Joanne Pope Melish
Hamilton&#039;s Curse - Thomas DiLorenzo
Myths of American Slavery - Walter D. Kennedy
Red Republicans &amp; Lincoln Marxists - Walter D. Kennedy

Two book reviews may be helpful
www.toqonline.com/archives/v4n1/TOQv4n1Griffin.pdf
www.fff.org/freedom/fd0208h.asp</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forced Into Glory &#8211; Lerone Bennett<br />
The Real Lincoln &#8211; Charles L.C. Minor (Apologia Books)<br />
Lincoln Unmasked &#8211; Thomas DiLorenzo<br />
Lincoln the Man &#8211; Edgar Lee Masters<br />
Lincoln Uber Alles &#8211; John Avery Emison<br />
Lincoln Takes Command &#8211; John Tilley<br />
Disowning Slavery &#8211; Joanne Pope Melish<br />
Hamilton&#8217;s Curse &#8211; Thomas DiLorenzo<br />
Myths of American Slavery &#8211; Walter D. Kennedy<br />
Red Republicans &amp; Lincoln Marxists &#8211; Walter D. Kennedy</p>
<p>Two book reviews may be helpful<br />
<a href="http://www.toqonline.com/archives/v4n1/TOQv4n1Griffin.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.toqonline.com/archives/v4n1/TOQv4n1Griffin.pdf</a><br />
<a href="http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0208h.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0208h.asp</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/mormonism/joseph-smith-and-abraham-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-51479</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2011 16:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@Terry: No worries. Understood. Are there any other books or articles you recommend on the topic? That would be really helpful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Terry: No worries. Understood. Are there any other books or articles you recommend on the topic? That would be really helpful.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/mormonism/joseph-smith-and-abraham-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-51478</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2011 02:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/mormonism/?p=13#comment-51478</guid>
		<description>Yes, you are correct. I&#039;m very passionate about the subject and let my emotions run sometime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, you are correct. I&#8217;m very passionate about the subject and let my emotions run sometime.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://richardkmiller.com/mormonism/joseph-smith-and-abraham-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-51477</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Apr 2011 23:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardkmiller.com/mormonism/?p=13#comment-51477</guid>
		<description>@Terry: Your tone doesn&#039;t help your message. It takes some study to learn that Lincoln wasn&#039;t a friend to the Latter-day Saints nor in many ways to liberty. You&#039;ll help people discover this faster if your delivery is softer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Terry: Your tone doesn&#8217;t help your message. It takes some study to learn that Lincoln wasn&#8217;t a friend to the Latter-day Saints nor in many ways to liberty. You&#8217;ll help people discover this faster if your delivery is softer.</p>
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